{"id":2583,"date":"2019-10-09T17:31:07","date_gmt":"2019-10-09T17:31:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/eu.shop.wacom.eu\/us\/?p=2583"},"modified":"2026-06-05T09:23:32","modified_gmt":"2026-06-05T16:23:32","slug":"later-alligator-a-qa-with-the-small-buteras","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/later-alligator-a-qa-with-the-small-buteras\/","title":{"rendered":"Later Alligator: A Q&#038;A with the Small-Buteras"},"content":{"rendered":"Someone in the alligator mob is out to whack the panicky squealer Pat. Can you figure out who it is? You have until eight tonight. That\u2019s when The Event happens, and he has an invite he can\u2019t refuse...\n\nFrom that simple premise comes the wild ride that makes up the indie point-and-click adventure <i>Later Alligator.<\/i>\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/YbmKuBrDhow\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>\n\nFreshly released on September 18th, it\u2019s already among the highest-rated Steam titles at an almost unheard of 98%, with reviewers praising its innovative take on the genre and its \u201ccute and quirky\u201d humor. Pardon the cliche, but that phrase was made for this game: It\u2019s adorable, it doesn\u2019t have a single serious moment, and if it doesn\u2019t at least amuse you, please check your hair color because you might not have a soul.\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2587\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lateralligator.gif\" alt=\"Later Alligator GIF\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" title=\"\">\n\nOh yeah, and it\u2019s hand drawn.\n\nThe development was handled by <a href=\"https:\/\/pillowfight.io\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Pillow Fight games<\/a>, who I did not interview. Music and sound effects were by <a href=\"https:\/\/2mellomakes.bandcamp.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2 Mello<\/a>, who I also did not interview. Everything else\u2014story, characters, scripting, and every frame of animation\u2014was done by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.smallbu.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Smallbu<\/a>, the Boston studio behind <i>Baman Piderman<\/i>. If you haven\u2019t watched it, <i>Baman Piderman<\/i> is about... Just watch it.\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/KyvZ04KKhFY\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>\n\nThey\u2019ve also worked on <i>Adventure Time<\/i>\u2014netting them an Emmy\u2014and <i>Clarence<\/i>, while keeping up <i>Piderman <\/i>and multiple personal projects like <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/5ZryFRaQK4w\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">fan animations<\/a> and the miniseries <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/oUrhjcGLy3g\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>Daffodil<\/i><\/a>. As you\u2019ve guessed, Smallbu is a massive animation house with tens of- No wait it\u2019s two people.\n\nLindsay and Alex Small-Butera are a husband and wife duo who\u2019ve collaborated on every project for more than a decade, working side-by-side and sharing joint control of every aspect. Them, I did interview.\n\nSo let\u2019s dive into the question on all our minds: How do 80,000 drawings become a game?\n\n<b><i>Later Alligator <\/i><\/b><b>was animated entirely by hand in <\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.toonboom.com\/products\/harmony\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>Toon Boom Harmony<\/b><\/a><b>?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Yeah.\n\nhttps:\/\/twitter.com\/SmallBuStudio\/status\/1172917341849575430\n\n<b>...And you both use Cintiq Pro 21\u2019s*, right?<\/b>\n\n<i>*This is when I learned not to make bold statements based on dodgy online sources.<\/i>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Nope! I use a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wacom.com\/en-us\/products\/pen-displays\/wacom-cintiq-pro-24\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">24<\/a>, and Alex, yours is what?\n\n<b>Alex:<\/b> I think it\u2019s the Intuos 5. I can\u2019t stand drawing on the screen. I actually like having my hand be down by my waist so I\u2019m looking straight ahead.\n\n<b>I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve heard anyone say that before.<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I disagree with him, yeah.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>[Laughs] I like having it out of the way so I can just see the art happening. No hand. No arm.\n\nRemember you couldn\u2019t wait to get the Cintiq? You were like \u201cAah, I need it, I need it, so excited!\u201d We finally got one and you were so happy, then I tried it and I was like, \u201cI can\u2019t handle this!\u201d\n\n<b>Do you do post-production work in After Effects?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Yep!\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We\u2019ve moved most of it into Harmony, though.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Yeah, Harmony covers a lot of the bases that Flash couldn\u2019t.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>The more we learn about Harmony, the more we realize we don\u2019t need other programs, which is great.\n\n<b>From what I\u2019ve seen of Harmony, it seems the interface is simpler than you would expect, but then it\u2019s capable of a lot more.<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>It\u2019s very easy to learn, but it\u2019s teaching you things you\u2019re not used to. It feels like a program that is made by artists. All of the Adobe products are made by programmers and web designers because that\u2019s how they came about, but once you understand that Toon Boom thinks about things differently, and that different way is better [for animation], it\u2019s amazing.\n\n<b>So, the game is composed of 40,000 cels? That\u2019s the number I always see quoted.<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>No. Probably double that. I think somebody said that number earlier on in the project.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We hadn\u2019t nearly finished all the assets. So now? Easily eighty, if not more.\n\n<b>That\u2019s amazing. How long did it take?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Just under two years.\n\n<b>That\u2019s it?!<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>And it was sprinkled in with all the other work we had to do. Like, there were times when we weren\u2019t working on it solid at all.\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/uNBqbFXCy_4\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Snacky Snacktime<i> for kids\u2019 musician Parry Gripp; released in 2018 while <\/i>Alligator <i>was underway.<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n<b>...Yeah, I need to dive into your process. <\/b><a href=\"https:\/\/podtail.com\/en\/podcast\/the-diy-animation-show\/-baman-piderman-creators-alex-lindsay-small-bute-6\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><b>You\u2019ve said<\/b><\/a><b> you\u2019re capable of doing all this just because you\u2019re very fast. Did you practice speed itself, or was it a byproduct of animating as much as you do?\u00a0<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>If you draw slowly and deliberately, that creates a certain effect. But if you draw without caring how it comes out, just trying to get the feeling across, without stopping yourself by checking everything and second-guessing? You can draw so much faster than you think you can. Then you just make more passes until it\u2019s clean.\n\nGetting to that point is tricky and it feels weird. In high school, we did these ten-second figure studies: The teacher would hold a pose to draw for ten seconds, and you had to get as much as you could down. At first it\u2019s uncomfortable because it\u2019s like, \u201cNo, I wanted to draw the whole pose!\u201d\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2598\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/cels.jpg\" alt=\"Later Alligator animation cel\" width=\"768\" height=\"576\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/cels.jpg 768w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/cels-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/cels-510x382.jpg 510w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/cels-480x360.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 768px) 100vw, 768px\" \/>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/figuresketching.blogspot.com\/2015\/09\/10-second-posemaniacs-in-toonboom.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>10-second studies<\/i><\/a><i> drawn in Harmony by animator <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hamorhage\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>Dave DK<\/i><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We did that in college too. It\u2019s part of an animation curriculum, to be able to get down gesture really fast. When you\u2019re animating, you don\u2019t want to overlabor a drawing. This is why they say a lot of great illustrators make bad animators [and vice versa]. It\u2019s just a different way to approach it. Drawing fast is a hallmark of animation.\n\nFor accuracy, we go back over things many times. There\u2019s a rough pass, then a second rough pass, then a tie-down pass, then a second tie-down pass, and then a cleanup pass. Our accuracy has improved so much just from a decade of doing it that we can often skip steps without meaning to, though.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>The first rough of the drawing is almost incomprehensible. If I were to show you the thumbnails, you wouldn\u2019t know what\u2019s going on.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>A lot of them are even on Post-it notes.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>Sometimes a section will need two more passes of rough to get it right, or sometimes a section will be like \u201cOh, this is basically done! This can be cleaned up now.\u201d\n\n<b>Do you go linearly from storyboards &gt; sketches &gt; keyframes &gt; inbetweens &gt; cleanup &gt; coloring?<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We don\u2019t really define it. It\u2019s more like \u201cWhat needs to get done now?\u201d It starts with basic, sketchy drawings of how the story beats are going to play out, then we\u2019ll do another pass where there are more drawings in between, then we\u2019ll do another pass where it\u2019s timed-out if there\u2019s audio.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We\u2019re very fortunate because we\u2019re not in a studio environment where things have to go a certain way because you\u2019re working with lots and lots of people. Since we\u2019re a very small team\u2014a very, very, <i>very <\/i>small team [laughs]\u2014Alex and I can be extremely malleable. Whatever we need in the moment, we can change. That helps us make decisions quickly and put stuff out really fast.\n\n<b>Would you consider speed the most important part of your approach as a whole? And if so, why do you value having so many projects?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the <i>most<\/i> important thing, but working in animation as two people, our time is all we have. If we didn\u2019t put out anything for years, which sometimes animation can take, it would end up falling by the wayside. We just don\u2019t have the luxury of that. Until we worked on the game, we were working for hire: We would get stuff like, \u201cSeven minutes of <i>Adventure Time<\/i> has to be completed in four months,\u201d so we just learned around that.\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/1R8yhQ2LqYA\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><em>Scene from Adventure Time they animated as special guests.<\/em><\/p>\nWe\u2019re having to do tons and tons of projects to pay the bills and stay alive and keep our families safe. I would love to have more time for things, but it\u2019s not the case when you\u2019re out there working for a client.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>There\u2019s a feeling when you\u2019re really enjoying the process of drawing and you lose track of time... That sensation is really nice, but you could be basking in that enjoyment of art, or you could actually be finishing a project.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>If you\u2019re making beautiful paintings at home that you don\u2019t have a deadline on, take all the time in the world. But working on a video game for two years, we almost went broke. If we\u2019d taken any more time, we would\u2019ve gotten into trouble.\n\n<b>So, for <\/b><b><i>Baman<\/i><\/b><b>\u2014Lindsay, I believe you did the writing and storyboards, Alex, you did the keyframing and voice acting, and you both split the inbetweening and post-production? But for this one where there\u2019s much more animation and no vocal work, how did you split up the tasks?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I\u2019m the director, so I did all the writing, all the concepting, and a lot of the boarding and stuff. Alex is still our keyframer. But it was a very together process: We\u2019re both animating, we\u2019re both designing, we\u2019re both making the jokes, and we split up the concept artwork. It\u2019s very much split down the middle.\n\nWe\u2019re often both at the same computer, both drawing on the same tablet, working <i>really <\/i>close to get things the way we want them.\n\n<b>Just passing the pen back and forth?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Yep! When we\u2019re beginning things and hashing things out: the way things move, the shots, the design, we find it\u2019s best if we\u2019re standing there and talking the whole time we\u2019re doing it. It ends up being seamless and we get things done a lot faster.\n\n<b>Does that ever force you both to draw on the Cintiq?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We actually do it mostly at Alex\u2019s computer. It\u2019s got a bigger setup and it\u2019s a standing desk, so we can both stand next to each other. I hate drawing on his stupid, flatted... flat thing, though! [Laughs] But I do it.\n\n<i>Wacom\u2019s official position is that the <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.wacom.com\/en-in\/products\/pen-tablets\/intuos\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>Intuos<\/i><\/a><i> is not stupid, although it <\/i>is<i> both flatted and flat.<\/i>\n\n<b>Lindsay, did you write the script entirely by yourself? And how is scripting for an interactive medium different than for a passive one? You\u2019re writing dialogue trees, if-thens...<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Yeah. Part of what helped me is early in the process, I decided there wouldn\u2019t be a lot of if-then\u2019s: The way <i>Later Alligator <\/i>is set up is, you ask them questions but they always respond in the same way.\n\nInitially [Pillow Fight] wanted me to work in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.inklestudios.com\/ink\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ink markup<\/a>, but I just didn\u2019t have time to learn a coding language because most of our life has to focus on animation. So what I ended up doing is putting everything together in Google Docs, and it ended up being more like a regular animation script.\n\nEverything was about speed in this project because we didn\u2019t have more time than we had for the project because we and Pillow Fight all had to get back to other things. There were a lot of things that we did to ensure expedience, and that was one of them.\n\n<b>You\u2019re in [Human] Boston and Pillow Fight\u2019s in [Human] Virginia. How do you work remotely on such a large project? Constant communication, sending massive files, etc.<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>It\u2019s really easy to do that nowadays. We just had <a href=\"https:\/\/slack.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Slack<\/a>, and we all know each other in real life, so we would just have weekly calls; talk about what we\u2019re doing. Sending files is easy because we all have\u2026 the internet. [Laughs]\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We use Google Drive and Slack, that\u2019s it.\n\n<b>What parts did Pillow Fight handle? Did they have much creative input?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>They had input into the gaming aspect. When we started, I had ideas like, \u201cThis guy has a game like this!\u201d A clone of <i>Flappy Bird<\/i> or a sliding block puzzle\u2026 But we gave them creative control of game development and they came up with some really fun mechanics. That was instrumental to the success of the game.\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2599\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/gameplay.gif\" alt=\"Gameplay\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" title=\"\">\n\n<b>What can you tell me about the process of getting it from an animation to a game, though? What programs did they use?<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>Each game and each background that had characters in it, we set it up like a normal animation file. So we have all the frames layered and set up in Toon Boom, and we would make all the assets\u2014[they\u2019d be] just sitting there for when there was going to be something interactive or something on screen\u2014then we would just send them over as PNG sequences, labeled and sorted as best we could, and they would put it together in <a href=\"https:\/\/unity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Unity<\/a>.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Alex knows a bit of Unity and I used to do a bit of coding in C++, so we had an understanding of how these things work, so we were able to work really closely with them. Initially, we had to figure out our process for the exporting of these things, and how Harmony would play with Unity. It turns out they hook up really well!\n\n<b>The game has \u201cover 100 alligators and 3 ghosts.\u201d With that many characters to design, did you eventually come up with a formula or pipeline?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>That\u2019s the joke number, [but it\u2019s] pretty accurate. There might be more.\n\nPat the Alligator is a character I\u2019ve been drawing since high school. But I had very little experience drawing animals and I never practiced it, so I had a very particular way of doing it which was just really silly. That\u2019s where the style came from.\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><i><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2654\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/Later-alligator-gif-3.gif\" alt=\"Vine\" width=\"500\" height=\"503\" title=\"\"><\/i><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><i>Early Vine (remember those?) of Pat<\/i><\/p>\nThere are a few [variables] within the style. There are the side-facing alligators that are like a V; there are the top-facing alligators where it\u2019s like a triangle pointing up; and ones that are in between. Those are kind of the three shapes of alligators.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We would both be doing lots of different drawings and then decide which ones fit the tone of the game. We\u2019d combine aspects of the drawings we were making and once we both understood the style, we could just draw gators as we wished.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>The visual language came really naturally.\n\n<b>Each character has a very distinct set of reactions and idle animations. Did you plan those out in advance, or did you have to improvise some of them?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>A lot of them were improvised just because each gator\u2019s conversation nodes were very different from each other, but there were general ones: Wins, losses, happy, sad, disappointed, angry\u2026 But it was on a case-by-case basis.\n\n<b>Your work\u2014going back to early <\/b><b><i>Baman\u2014<\/i><\/b><b>has a lot more unusual angles and \u2018camera movements\u2019 than you see in other indie animations. What\u2019s the secret to pulling it off well? Do you use any 3d elements or video reference, or is it done off the top of your head?<\/b>\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2646\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/pats-vine.gif\" alt=\"Pat&#039;s Vine\" width=\"728\" height=\"408\" title=\"\">\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/2ux8OjG0s3M\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>Baman Piderman: Ghost Night 2<\/i><\/a><\/p>\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Nope, it\u2019s just done off the top of our head. That\u2019s one of our specialties, why we get hired a lot to do dream sequences and stuff for TV. It\u2019s in most of our work. We just have really good spatial awareness from doing it for so long. And because Alex and I so often work in silly or simplistic forms, it\u2019s easier to move that stuff around. We do plan out floorplans, basically\u2014where things are, in order to keep them consistent.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>It\u2019s funny: When we were getting toward the end of the game, we were looking at the angles we chose like, \u201cAw, this wasn\u2019t pushed far enough! This could\u2019ve been so much more extreme!\u201d\n\n<b>The last thing I wanted to cover was the game\u2019s inspiration. Old-school cartoons were clearly one, but I also got some <\/b><b><i>Triplets of Belleville<\/i><\/b><b> vibes?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We both love that movie, so... Sort of, but impalpably.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>The game came about when we did a really terrible test animation and we said, \u201cIt\u2019s not going to get any more complicated than this.\u201d That\u2019s all it is, but as we were drawing it, we wanted to make it look better.\n\nhttps:\/\/twitter.com\/SmallBuStudio\/status\/1175785425182613504\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>For the backgrounds, we found all these gorgeous photos of extremely tacky, richie-rich interiors from the 50\u2019s to the 70\u2019s and I was like, \u201cOh, man, the game should be like this!\u201d And part of the game is inspired by Long Island. Alex\u2019s family lives there, and it\u2019s just the most alien, tacky place I\u2019ve ever been in my life.\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2607\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/background.jpg\" alt=\"Tacky Long Island house\" width=\"700\" height=\"525\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/background.jpg 700w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/background-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/background-510x382.jpg 510w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/background-480x360.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 700px) 100vw, 700px\" \/>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><i>Twinight House; Oyster Bay, NY. Image from <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.mlsli.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>MLSLI<\/i><\/a><i>.<\/i><\/p>\nBut in terms of the gameplay, there\u2019s a huge inspiration from <i>Professor Layton<\/i>, the original trilogy, just because that\u2019s my favorite game. I think that\u2019s pretty obvious.\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2608\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/professor.jpg\" alt=\"Professor Layton\" width=\"816\" height=\"408\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/professor.jpg 816w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/professor-300x150.jpg 300w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/professor-768x384.jpg 768w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/professor-480x240.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 816px) 100vw, 816px\" \/>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><i>L to R: Professor Layton 1-3 for the Nintendo DS.<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n<b>Who are some of your other favorite indie game artists, or just artists working on other awesome things that you wish had more exposure?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I think <a href=\"https:\/\/wanderso.ng\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>Wandersong<\/i><\/a> is really interesting. What else\u2026\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. I\u2019d have to think. Yeah, we don\u2019t really consume that much media.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We don\u2019t have a lot of time because we have to work so hard to keep the studio afloat. But we\u2019re big fans of stuff on Cartoon Network. We\u2019re loving watching <i>OK KO<\/i>, <i>Mao Mao<\/i>, those kinds of things. But in general, we can\u2019t play a lot of indie games, which sucks, \u2018cause we should, \u2018cause they\u2019re very good. And I never feel like I know what anybody\u2019s talking about! [Laughs] We\u2019re boring, I\u2019m sorry!\n\n<b>Speaking of your schedule, you once talked [in an interview] about having to go almost 50 hours without sleep while working on a project. Is that the kind of thing that happens often?<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>There was a time where we weren\u2019t using our time wisely.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>A couple years ago when we were first starting our business, we were doing lots of projects all the time, we were up all night crunching, getting sick, feeling terrible, and we had a particularly bad one several years ago that kept us up into the forty-something hour range where we were both seeing spots and hearing things. And we decided after that, we will never do that again. Our health is too important. No more all-nighters. And we stuck to it by being smart about the way we use our time.\n\nI wish a lot of young creators would also take that vow. Your health is much more valuable than anything.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>There\u2019s this idea that staying up late somehow means you get more work done. That\u2019s a <i>huge <\/i>fallacy that hurts a lot of people. The best way is to work steadily while you\u2019re awake, then sleep as much as you need to. That gets way more work done over time than crunching.\n\n<b>That\u2019s advice the culture as a whole needs. Especially in web media where people brag about getting like three hours sleep a night.<\/b>\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>Yeah, it\u2019s a bragging point: \u201cOh, I stayed up till 5!\u201d Okay great, the whole week is gonna be shot for you.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>You also can\u2019t sustain that after age 25.\n\n<b>Do you have any secrets for living and working together without conflict arising?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>We were actually just talking about this earlier and not to shame you, but it\u2019s such a rude question! [Laughs]\n\nWe get asked this all the time: \u201cOh God, how do you guys not kill each other?\u201d And it\u2019s just, \u201cWell, we just like each other!\u201d\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>We got this question at a caf\u00e9 we always go to just yesterday. It occurs to <i>everyone <\/i>to ask us that. We were talking about it right before your call: \u201cWhat\u2019s the reason people do that?\u201d\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>It\u2019s essentially, \u201cDo you find your partner annoying?\u201d [Both laugh]\n\n<b>Oh! That\u2019s why I tried to frame it as\u2026 not \u201cDo you find them annoying\u201d but, \u201cDo you have any advice for\u2026\u201d You know what I\u2019m trying to say?<\/b>\n\n<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2609\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/partner.gif\" alt=\"\" width=\"800\" height=\"450\" title=\"\">\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I do. My advice for anyone in a partnership of any kind, whether it\u2019s a romance or a friendship or anything beyond that binary, is just \u201cCompromise, and be really communicative.\u201d Alex and I talk everything out. We say what\u2019s on our minds. We\u2019re extremely honest to each other about our feelings, whether they\u2019re negative or very positive.\n\nWhen you\u2019re really honest with people and you speak simply and respectfully about how you feel, even if it\u2019s not a good thing, I find you can always find common ground with whoever you\u2019re working with, whether you\u2019re working on work-work, your life, or anything like that.\n\nHonesty, being upfront, and compromise are the keys to a happy partnership.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>I would add to that: It helps to be honest internally, with yourself, and if you\u2019re in tune with how you really feel, that helps you communicate. And it\u2019s almost <i>easier <\/i>if you have an external project you\u2019re working on together: To be creating something that you both put your hands in and work on.\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I don\u2019t want people to get the wrong idea and say \u201cThere\u2019s no conflict, they\u2019re so peaceful!\u201d We\u2019re human and we have conflicts with each other, but honesty and compromise are what help them get solved really fast so everyone\u2019s happy and you move on quickly.\n\n<b>Alex: <\/b>I think working together at home all day leads to <i>fewer <\/i>conflicts. When our relationship was just starting, we had less conflict the more time we spent together. It just got easier and better.\n\n<b>Finally, about your upcoming feature film. It\u2019s called Something Special...<\/b>\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Ei66I0Lph_U\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Nope, that\u2019s just the trailer!\n\n<b>What is it going to be called?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>I can\u2019t tell you.\n\n<b>What <\/b><b><i>can<\/i><\/b><b> you tell me?<\/b>\n\n<b>Lindsay: <\/b>Almost nothing! [Laughs]\n\nWe\u2019re completely funded to make it, all the writing is done, we\u2019re more than halfway through the storyboards, we\u2019re in the midst of casting right now, all the design work is done\u2026 We\u2019re pretty much getting ready to go into rough animation. It\u2019ll be done probably within the next three years\u2019 time.\n\nWe\u2019re having more people in\u2014not for the art process, but we\u2019re going to have actual voice acting and we\u2019re hiring people to help us with post work this time. We have <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/NeilCicierega\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Neil Cicierega<\/a> working on the score, which is awesome, and <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/EiffelArt\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Matt Cummings<\/a>, who we worked with on <i>Adventure Time<\/i>, is doing all of the backgrounds.\n\nBut basically, it\u2019s still gonna be mostly just us\n\n<div id=\"attachment_2589\" style=\"width: 730px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-2589\" class=\"size-full wp-image-2589\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lindseyandalex.jpg\" alt=\"Lindsey and Alex\" width=\"720\" height=\"540\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lindseyandalex.jpg 720w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lindseyandalex-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lindseyandalex-510x382.jpg 510w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/10\/lindseyandalex-480x360.jpg 480w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 720px) 100vw, 720px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-2589\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Image from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.alumni.massart.edu\/s\/1432\/17\/interior.aspx?sid=1432&amp;gid=1&amp;calcid=2901&amp;calpgid=1051&amp;pgid=256&amp;ecid=1977&amp;crid=0\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Massart<\/a><\/p><\/div>\n\n<i>Lindsay and Alex\u2019s website is <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.smallbu.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>here<\/i><\/a><i>. Their Youtube channel is <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/SmallButera\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>here<\/i><\/a><i>. They\u2019re best reached via Twitter <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/smallbustudio?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>here<\/i><\/a><i>. Their Patreon is <\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/smallbu\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i>here<\/i><\/a><i>.<\/i>\n\n<b>Glossary:<\/b>\n<ul>\n \t<li><b>Assets: <\/b>Anything that goes into a game.<\/li>\n \t<li><b>Clean-up: <\/b>Tracing over the rough drawings to create the final lineart. For <i>Alligator<\/i> this was done by Ian \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/user\/Worthikids\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Worthikids<\/a>\u201d Worthington, I just had to cut the section in which they credited him themselves.<\/li>\n \t<li><b>Conversation nodes: <\/b>The choices of what you can say or do to a game character as you speak to them, and their potential responses.<\/li>\n \t<li><b>Flash: <\/b>Adobe\u2019s flagship animation program, now known as <a href=\"https:\/\/www.adobe.com\/products\/animate.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Adobe Animate<\/a>. Intended\u2014and much more often used\u2014for short web animations and browser games than for longer projects.<\/li>\n \t<li><b>If-thens: <\/b>Conditional responses and dialogue. \u201cIf player does this, then character says that.\u201d<\/li>\n \t<li><b>Inbetweens: <\/b>The frames between the key frames that make up the bulk of all movement.<\/li>\n \t<li><b>Keyframing: <\/b>Drawing the key frames or the animatic: the defining image of each character pose, object movement, and camera angle.<\/li>\n \t<li><strong>Pass:<\/strong> A draft.<\/li>\n \t<li><strong>Tie-down:<\/strong> Going back through your rough sketches to ensure that proportions and placements stay correct and there are no visible errors.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>About the Author: CS Jones<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-1841\" src=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/07\/CS_Jones_avatar-300x300.png\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/07\/CS_Jones_avatar-300x300.png 300w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/07\/CS_Jones_avatar-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/40\/2019\/07\/CS_Jones_avatar.png 595w\" alt=\"CS Jones\" width=\"300\" height=\"300\" title=\"\"><\/h2>\nCS Jones is a Philadelphia-based freelance writer, illustrator, and occasional photographer. He spends his spare time listening to Spotify and waiting for trains. Someday, he\u2019ll finish that graphic novel. In the meantime, his work is best seen at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/thecsjones.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">thecsjones.com<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/instagram.com\/thecsjones\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">@thecsjones<\/a>\u00a0on Instagram.\n\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.thecsjones.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Website<\/a>\n\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/thecsjones\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Later Alligator is among the highest-rated Steam titles at an almost unheard of 98%, with reviewers praising its innovative take on the genre and its \u201ccute and quirky\u201d humor. Pardon the cliche, but that phrase was made for this game: It\u2019s adorable, it doesn\u2019t have a single serious moment and it was made on Wacom devices.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":2584,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"inline_featured_image":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2345],"tags":[350,351,352,185,175],"class_list":["post-2583","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-gaming","tag-later-alligator","tag-point-and-click-game","tag-steam","tag-wacom-cintiq","tag-wacom-intuos-pro"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2583","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2583"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2583\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2584"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2583"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2583"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/community.wacom.com\/en-us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2583"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}